Musicologie Médiévale

Resources for medieval musicology and liturgy

L'offertoire Deus tu convertens - Développement organique - Conséquences sur le SI bémol

TABLEAUX SYNOPTIQUES :

OFF Deus tu convertens :

Zone_germanique_France_est.jpg

France_Nord_Centre.jpg

Iles_a_Italie_du_Sud.jpg

Le fichier pdf réunissant les trois zones :

Toutes_zones.pdf

RESP Dominus mecum est :

Zone_germanique_France_est.jpg

Zone_non_germanique.jpg

Ordres_Religieux.jpg

Le fichier pdf réunissant les trois tableaux :

Dominus_mecum_est_Toutes_zones.pdf

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Replies to This Discussion

Bravo Dominique, again a wonderfull piece of work. You are giving scholars the material to work and discuss.

I hope many will do!

About the proposition. I would like to comment A: you propose sib on the vivificabis NOS melisma. GT 20,4 GrN 9.6

Page 2 (tableau) and page 4 Formula A: b in Rouen, Cam61 and Troyes, but Mp (your H 159) has si here!

In the following example (cor meum) Mp has sib and si in the same neume. Very adventurous.

P. 5 ‘The non-cursive i is no solid evidence for si naturale, only the italic i is, for sibmolle’

First: this knowledge is new to me. Second: this particular example shows the two hands in writing letters in the H 159 / Montpellier-codex (the scribes Y and Z, see Hansen)

P. 6. IN Ego (domino) and IN Nunc scio (angelum suum): Mp has si and not sib. Thus 2 of the 4 given examples are in favour, two are not!

P. 7 The two examples from GR Eripe: Only the first has sib, the second has si according to H 159!

I don't think a sib on NOS is out of the question, there are witnesses to be found. But arguing with the testimony of Montpellier would not be my choice .

 About the B-formula:

P. 7-10 et salu-TA-re (formula B): you propose sib. First : this is about esthetics. If you start this little phrase with sol_si, si dododo, I would be very surprised to have sib on the accent followed by si on TUUM. And I don’t think we’ll find one manuscript to testify.

If we would start with sol_do, dodododo, the sib afterwards would not be impossible. And given the fact that all SG have virga + tristrofa, Laon writes the 4 notes in equal position (Chartres doesn’t) , one would have a point. But then second, consistency: if Bv34, Albi and Yrieix agree on the subsemitonal intonation, we normally follow.

Un exemple simple qui vaut preuve pour le I couché, mais pas pour le I droit dans Montpellier est celui-ci :

Même texte, même mélodie, même bémol...

franco ackermans said:

Bravo Dominique, again a wonderfull piece of work. You are giving scholars the material to work and discuss.

I hope many will do!

About the proposition. I would like to comment A: you propose sib on the vivificabis NOS melisma. GT 20,4 GrN 9.6

Page 2 (tableau) and page 4 Formula A: b in Rouen, Cam61 and Troyes, but Mp (your H 159) has si here!

In the following example (cor meum) Mp has sib and si in the same neume. Very adventurous.

 

P. 5 ‘The non-cursive i is no solid evidence for si naturale, only the italic i is, for sibmolle’

First: this knowledge is new to me. Second: this particular example shows the two hands in writing letters in the H 159 / Montpellier-codex (the scribes Y and Z, see Hansen)

P. 6. IN Ego (domino) and IN Nunc scio (angelum suum): Mp has si and not sib. Thus 2 of the 4 given examples are in favour, two are not!

P. 7 The two examples from GR Eripe: Only the first has sib, the second has si according to H 159!

I don't think a sib on NOS is out of the question, there are witnesses to be found. But arguing with the testimony of Montpellier would not be my choice .

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