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When I was a student of D. Joao Enout (himself a disciple of D. Cardine in Rome), I remeber he mentioned some melodies conserved on the Aramaic-speaking villages of Syria which resembled gregorian melodies.  It was many years ago, but I am quite sure he mentioned Jeremiah Lamentations of the Triduum Sacrum as the most convincing example of paleochristian melody which would have survived in the Aramaic-speaking tradition of these people.

Does anyone could confirm if there are really these surviving melodies in Aramaic speaking villages today?

Is it really the Lamentatio gregorian melody which was identified as similar to the Aramaic living tradition?

Thank you for your help!

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He seems to be generous.

If you follow the links, you will find it. There is also a bibliography here with another publication by the same author which might interest you as well.

Félix Ferrà a dit :

Thank you. Are the studies of Froyshow on the net?

Oliver Gerlach a dit :

It is a classic and still worth reading, but especially the hypothesis that Gilian Lander mentions is quite problematic. I advice to consult the current studies like those by Frøyshov who discussed also Eric Werner in detail (you can also follow the tag Oktoechos). I still do not know the new publication by Svetlana Kujumdzieva, but it might be relevant as well.

I start to think I have read many years ago a translation of at least parts of The Sacred Bridge, but I didn't remember that title. Anyway, I have bought the book and will see.

I"ve read about Idelsohn studies and they have one major contribution in my opinion: to show it is possible that musical patterns and "style" can persist after 2000 years even in communities with few or no contact. The preservative element in need is a strong feeling of tradition as it can be provided by religion. It is the same with Christian chant and I see more than analogies between the traditions. But it lacks a study on the living Aramaic communities chant tradition (at least a published one), because I am sure D. Cardine's students had some clues.. unfortunately I was too young.

Félix Ferrà a dit :

Yes, Gillian, I will write then soon. Thank you very much for all your help.

Gillian Lander a dit :

I have a recording (CD from San Antonio Vocal Arts Ensemble -dir Christopher Moroney) where Tonus Peregrinus is sung as Jewish chant, in Hebrew for Psalm 113/14. (B'tseth Israel)   "Ancient Echoes"  inlcuding scholarship of musicologist A.Z. Idelsohn. Idelsohn collected and recorded the religious and folk music of Jews..  He features, if I remember, in Sacred Bridge. I suspect Moroney is more performer than scholar.

Felix I hope will soon have direct contact with a Syriac community still singing old Aramaic chant. (in New Zealand... !), so it will be interesting to see what comes of it all.

MMMmmmm...... like Felix I think there is some truth in traditions holding music for millenia. I know the Syriacs in my  brief aquaintance sing Aramaic St Ephrem (4th Century) unaltered.... we think. Only now are they attempting to put an "accompaniment" to microtonal chant - using an electronic Casio keyboard !!!!!! (for the sake of their youth of course. I tried to stop them. ) I must re-read Sacred Br.

How can you tell that they sing St Ephrem "unaltered" ? The very notion of "unaltered (music)" is foreign to the syriac tradition.

And about the "tonus peregrinus" as associated to the psalm 113/14 in the gregorian (but not Roman) tradition, it was so only in the memories of our great-fathers, because it was sung in the sunday vespers to this long psalm and hence was very popular (Mozart uses it in his Requiem). But again, may I stress that the antiphon "Nos qui uiuimus" is a frankish creation (and the antiphon "Deus autem noster" a modern one) modeled on some other antiphons ("Angeli Domini" ; "Martyres Domini") and that this special tune was originally intended for the canticle of Daniel!

I can only assert ther claim of some years back that they were singing St Ephrem as unbroken tradition. Who knows how time may have altered the melodies.  My concern at the time (c 2003) was addition of the rock rhythm backing....

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