Magnifique chalumeau triple découvert en Russie à Staraya Russa dans des strates du XIVème siècle !
La longueur est de 15.30cm.
Le diamètre du tenon est de taille inégale entre 2.70cm et 3.30cm.
Le diamètre moyen des perces est de 0.08cm
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Novgorod's archaeological finds include literally any number (thousands) of very clearly Viking items. The early Rus decorations are identical to contemporary Viking styles. So it's not a question of a lone piper setting sail somewhere in the West, but thousands of Westerners constantly moving in and out of Novgorod. (And Staraya Russa, think of it more on the lines of Novgorod's main suburb. It's on the opposite side of the lake.)
But yes, the find is certainly much later. My view is still that this chanter has more to do with the types that survived in the area to recent times.
I have to admit that the Bashkir pipes were something I misremembered. In Von Bartha's work the examples are Mordvin and Cheremiss. No Bashkir. What I hazily remember is that some few years ago I was briefly in correspondence with a native Chuvash player, and he mentioned Bashkir pipes of the same kind. Sorry for the confusion.(After all, I was writing from memory, yeeears after reading Von Bartha's report.)
Anton thank you for your comment !
Maybe, my speech is lovely story and there is no real proof of direct connection. But the comparison between the bagpipe from Staraya Russa and Saint-Lô is thrilling...
Among all the medieval iconography of the bagpipes, I have seen only one bagpipe also similar.
We are may be in a same bagpipe family...
Anton Tunin a dit :
As I have promised, I copy-paste some thoughts from FB discussion:
Though it shows nice typological connections I would doubt the direct connection. In this case we have to make a lot of assumptions including inexplicable cultural connection between Novgorod and Normandy. Double and triple channeled chanters develop here and there independently. And what is more, worth mentioning that in two new macro photos published in the correspinding LJ we see some local ornament used in chanter ending decoration well attested in local archeology.
Sure there was quite developed Hanseatic trade in Novgorod Republic, and theoretically the chanter could be traded from the West. I only remind of the Occam's razor. Why should we invent a romantic story of a travelling bagpiper sailing across The Baltic Sea full of Victual Brothers and other dangers if the bagpipe can be explained with local sources and local origin. It's the first ever found example of a medieval Rus bagpipe, so we are quite free in interpretations.
On the other hand, I must admit that the dig where it was found is probably located in the place of a rich man's mansion. And yes, he could be able to afford some exotic musical instrument. But still it's unlikely to be an argument for the Norman provenance.
The other weak point is that these depictions are late. Is there any earlier images? I've looked a little through french manuscripts available on-line but noticed nothing close.
Dominique Gatté a dit :
et oui, cette mr. Tchudinov est un drole :-)
Dominique Gatté a dit :
Thank for these precisions Yuri. Do you have any means to scan the page with the bagpipe and post it here?
All those pipes are double-chantered. The two chanters in the Urals types all have five (rarely six) fingerholes on one of the pipes, and from one to three on the other. Fingered together, that is, one finger covers two holes. Broadly speaking they are the same type as the Greek Tsambouna, some of which have also unequal chanters side by side (On Karpathos, for example, one pipe has 5, the other 1 fingerholes), the Maltese Zaqq (same as the Karpathos example, and a bit more distant types that have five (or occasionally 4 or 6 fingerholes on both pipes. Yes, these tend to have horns attached, either one (as in the Urals down to Greece) or two (North Africa, Middle East). But the horns don't really make a principal difference to the type of sound produced.
As to the Bashkir pipes, I have a copy of Von Bartha's Avar pipe excavation report (from before the war.) There is a photo of one Bashkir chanter there, 6 fingerholes on one pipe, 3 on the other. It's not clear if the pipes were still played in his time. (The Avar bone pipes is something else, again. I think they are hugely under-researched, and quite unjustly forgotten. By now there are at least half a dozen pairs known, hardly any published properly. Von Bartha found the first pair. He was not a player, so his reconstruction was very faulty, as far as the sound is concerned, as he used totally unsuitable reeds.)
troubadour31 a dit :
"ça clash" dur en Russie !
Voir : http://starcheolog.livejournal.com/129983.html
et : http://runitsa.ru/publications/1125/#44286
Je ne parle pas russe, on comprend les grandes lignes à l'aide de Google Translate : https://translate.google.fr/
Et moi le chanteur!
Denis Le vraux a dit :
Oui, mais il n'est pas si courbé que ça, c'est plutôt le sac qui est déformé. Il serait intéressant de savoir qu'ils ont trouvé d'autre à proximité du chalumeau lors des fouilles...
A voir...
Denis Le vraux a dit :
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