Le Congrès Grégorien de 1904

Discours du congrès de Rome d'avril 1904 :

11_Padre_Angelo_de_Santi_Discours_inaugural.mp3

12_Dom_Joseph_Pothier_Caractere_fondamental_du_Chant_Liturgique.mp3

13_Dom_Andre_Mocquereau_Recherches_dans_les_Sources_du_Chant.mp3

14_Baron_Rudolf_Kanzler_Chant_et_Gramophone.mp3

15_Mgr_Antonio_Rella_L_enseignement_du_Chant_Gregorien.mp3

Il se trouve que Dom Mocquereau pratiquait lui aussi la "coupure neumatique",comme on peut le constater dans l'Offertoire Ave Maria (DOM IV Adv), à "DOminus":

Afin d'assurer une "thésis" sur la "coupure" qui suit la deuxième note de la clivis, Dom Mocquereau va jusqu'à apposer un ictus sur la ... dernière note du climacus précédent !!

Jerome F. Weber a dit :

Two points must be understood about these recordings. The chants sung at the Congress were taken from the Liber Usualis of 1903 edited by Mocquereau. The differences between these chants and either the 1895 Liber Gradualis or the 1908 Graduale Romanum, both edited by Pothier, are profound, especially audible in the Kyriale pieces. Four of the conductors recorded these versions, but Pothier used his 1895 edition.

The other point is to hear *coupure neumatique* in Pothier's interpretations, as if he were a pupil of Cardine rather than the other way around, so to speak. It is astonishing to listen to his chants today.

Replies

Geert Maessen January 23, 2016 5:21

Very nice, thank you.
Dominique Gatté January 23, 2016 4:09

Merci Alberto pour cette reproduction !
Alberto Diaz-Blanco January 23, 2016 4:03

Depuis hier, nous parlons des moines de Sant'Anselmo à Rome sous la direction de Dom E. Cardine. Mais il y a avait déjà eu d'autres enregistrements à Sant'Anselmo: en 1933 pour Christschall (consultez Chantdiscography) et en 1904 pour Gramophone. Ci-dessous un dessin qui présente les moines en 1904 lors d'une séance d'enregistrement pour Gramophone:
Jerome F. Weber April 14, 2015 9:46

It should be noted that the Discant LPs omitted one 30cm disc, the "first part" of Pothier's discourse. I have not been able to listen to the disc in an archive (the Library of Congress has a copy, I believe). The number is 054775. Katharine Ellis, *The Politics of Plainchant in Fin-de-siecle France* (Ashgate, 2013), writes about these discourses in detail. She notes that Pothier's was not taken from the speech as it was delivered. All the speeches were published in *Rassegna gregoriana* from April to August 1904. My article, "A Century of Chant Recordings," will be published in The Netherlands later this year.
Jerome F. Weber April 14, 2015 9:29

I would not expect to look for coupure as an explanation of the rhythm at that point, since it is in the middle of a melisma. In Pothier's three chants, the coupure separates syllables but does not break up a melisma.
Dominique Crochu April 14, 2015 9:20

Il se trouve que Dom Mocquereau pratiquait lui aussi la "coupure neumatique",comme on peut le constater dans l'Offertoire Ave Maria (DOM IV Adv), à "DOminus":

Afin d'assurer une "thésis" sur la "coupure" qui suit la deuxième note de la clivis, Dom Mocquereau va jusqu'à apposer un ictus sur la ... dernière note du climacus précédent !!

Jerome F. Weber a dit :

Two points must be understood about these recordings. The chants sung at the Congress were taken from the Liber Usualis of 1903 edited by Mocquereau. The differences between these chants and either the 1895 Liber Gradualis or the 1908 Graduale Romanum, both edited by Pothier, are profound, especially audible in the Kyriale pieces. Four of the conductors recorded these versions, but Pothier used his 1895 edition.

The other point is to hear *coupure neumatique* in Pothier's interpretations, as if he were a pupil of Cardine rather than the other way around, so to speak. It is astonishing to listen to his chants today.

Le Congrès Grégorien de 1904

Lien général vers Chantdiscography Direction Mgr Antonio Rella 01_Introitus_Sacerdotes_Dei.mp3 02_Kyrie_VIII.mp3 03_Gloria_VIII.mp3 04_Allel…
Alberto Diaz-Blanco April 14, 2015 6:56

Merci Jerome, pour signaler ces précieuses informations. Je me permets de les compléter avec un article ci-joint qui devrait vous être familier (nous en avions parlé en août 2013), "The Gregorian Congress of 1904", journal of the Association for recorded sound collections, pp. 72-72, Vol. XIV, nº 2, Manassas, 1982.

Je vous joins également une image d'un disque original de Gramophone du Kyrie VIII dirigé par Rella.

v14n2p72-74.pdf

Gramophone Kyrie Rella.jpg
Jerome F. Weber April 13, 2015 11:35

Two points must be understood about these recordings. The chants sung at the Congress were taken from the Liber Usualis of 1903 edited by Mocquereau. The differences between these chants and either the 1895 Liber Gradualis or the 1908 Graduale Romanum, both edited by Pothier, are profound, especially audible in the Kyriale pieces. Four of the conductors recorded these versions, but Pothier used his 1895 edition.

The other point is to hear *coupure neumatique* in Pothier's interpretations, as if he were a pupil of Cardine rather than the other way around, so to speak. It is astonishing to listen to his chants today.
Isabelle Valloton April 13, 2015 11:27

Merci pour ce nouveau groupe!

This reply was deleted.

Enregistrements de la musique grégorienne et médiévale

Replies