Aramaic melody conserved in Syria

When I was a student of D. Joao Enout (himself a disciple of D. Cardine in Rome), I remeber he mentioned some melodies conserved on the Aramaic-speaking villages of Syria which resembled gregorian melodies.  It was many years ago, but I am quite sure he mentioned Jeremiah Lamentations of the Triduum Sacrum as the most convincing example of paleochristian melody which would have survived in the Aramaic-speaking tradition of these people.

Does anyone could confirm if there are really these surviving melodies in Aramaic speaking villages today?

Is it really the Lamentatio gregorian melody which was identified as similar to the Aramaic living tradition?

Thank you for your help!

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Replies

  • Merci .  En fait, je cherche un exemple de mélodie paleo-chrétienne semblable à une grégoriene qui aurait survécue dans les traditions aramaïques actuelles.  Aux années 1980 les élèves de D. Cardine parlaient de ça, mais malheureseument je n'ai pas pris note des détails.

    Ricossa a dit :

    Oui, le manuscrit est très intéressant, mais, comme le titre l'indique, il est melkite. Il représente en fait la liturgie gréco-byzantine avec des chants traduits en syriaque et notés en notation paléo-byzantine. Les mélodies sont les mêmes que celles qu'on trouve dans les manuscrits grecs et n'ont rien de syriaque (sinon dans la mesure où il y aurait une origine dans un monde musical commun ou du moins semblable).

    Les textes sont tous de la poésie liturgique et on n'y trouve donc pas de textes scripturaires, encore moins de lamentations...

    Aramaic melody conserved in Syria
    When I was a student of D. Joao Enout (himself a disciple of D. Cardine in Rome), I remeber he mentioned some melodies conserved on the Aramaic-speak…

  • Nice! Thanks for the source.


    Neil Moran a dit :

    cf. also

    Husmann, Heinrich, ed. Ein syro-melkitisches Tropologion mit altbyzantinischer Notation Sinai Syr. 261. Göttinger Orientforschungen, I. Reihe: Syriaca 9. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1975

    Aramaic melody conserved in Syria
    When I was a student of D. Joao Enout (himself a disciple of D. Cardine in Rome), I remeber he mentioned some melodies conserved on the Aramaic-speak…
  • cf. also

    Husmann, Heinrich, ed. Ein syro-melkitisches Tropologion mit altbyzantinischer Notation Sinai Syr. 261. Göttinger Orientforschungen, I. Reihe: Syriaca 9. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1975

  • Yes, this is a world the "catholic" west is unfamiliar with.  The Indian / Jacobite Syrians seem today to be using a "modern" idiom, whereas the SyriACs, (once upon a time Assyrians) are Middle Eastern and of the Eastern Oriental Orthodoxy - and the oldest of all Christian communities, formed by St Mark and based originally at Damascus. You can hear in their chant the odd Aramaic word we are familiar with - Bethlehem... Alleluia... Abba...

  • Thank you for these important informations.

    Ricossa a dit :

    Be careful to distinguish the so called "Jacobite" (West) syriacs from the "nestorians" (East).

    They have different music, a very different pronunciation of the syriac tongue and two very distinct liturgies. Indians belong to the Western branch, Iraqi to the Eastern one.

    In the west, the Maronites have a liturgy and music very similar to the one of the "Jacobites".

    Then you had also the "melchite" syrians, using the standard byzantine rite and music translated in syriac. Today they use mostly Arabic (like the Maronites)

    Aramaic melody conserved in Syria
    When I was a student of D. Joao Enout (himself a disciple of D. Cardine in Rome), I remeber he mentioned some melodies conserved on the Aramaic-speak…
  • And here is another much closer to the Syriac - several clips - you even hear the Aramaic "alleluias".....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXcKYNOsAw&list=PLB05457EA82C4F35C

    I now have a contact phone for someone of the Iraqi Syriac congregation.  Do you have email address I can use for him? Of course your questions may be answered now anyway.

  • Thank you for the links. I am watching all them.

  • This clip might be of use.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEkTbC8mq1U

    It looks and sounds to be of the Middle eastern tradition rather than the Indian...

    Also Our Father in Aramaic...

  • Thank you very much, Gillian.

    My aim is to have an example of a melody preserved in Aramaic in these traditional communities in a reasonable degree similar to a gregorian melody.

    My master D. Enout told me about that and I am quite sure it has something to do with the Lamentationes.

    I will search the syriacmusic site. Thanks a lot!!

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