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  • Dear friend

    I fully agree with you. In general, a deeper knowledge of the Greek terms is most definitely recommended, because the Latin terms more or less relate to, or even derive from them, and the presence of Greek scholars like Georgiadis at the University of Munich and Floros at the one of Hamburg oblige in particular German scholars to keep a very high level of mutual understanding (as it does exist among certain classical philologists, just think of Walter Berschin, for instance).

    I do not insist that I saw first (I did not even understand, whether you tried to tell me that something has been added there since October), I just mentioned my desire that the work continues to improve what still needs to be improved (even in this case, when the field is not that open like a living language).

    It is exactly the same which I try to do here, when I discuss certain aspects of the history of music theory with various members of this network. And I also agree with you that it is as well my intention to keep the meaning of each term open, we will never arrive at a point where we get a full understanding, but one might improve it (each reader in her/his very personal way).

    I am very grateful for the rich exchanges with all of you!

    With these words I am looking forward to discuss as many terms as you ever like!

  • Αγαπητοί φίλοι,

    instead of arguing on who saw what, I prefer to write a note in relation to Medieval Music Theories and emphasize how useful LML is to a “more global” view.

    α) As is written at the link “History” :

    The LmL was established in 1960 at the Bavarian Academy of Sciences on the initiative of the musicologist Thrasybulos Georgiades (Munich) and the medievalist Walther Bulst (Heidelberg). 

    It would be very interesting to learn what Georgiadis (and Walter Bulst) was thinking (in music related terms) about such an initiative. Is there in the LML archives any text of him where he explains why/what he believes in/about this project? Did he believe that such a project could be useful only for Latin Chant (and language) specialists or he was thinking in a wider prospect? In my view if such a text(s) exists should be appeared at the LML, and this not only for the ethnomusicologist of the future.

    β) Lets begin the β) with a small statement. As one easily can notice I never (I write again, never) made any correction of the orthography, transliterations, or literal “misunderstandings” of any Greek material appeared at the past in M.M., stressing that my participation here - using the privilege of its hospitality - is not to demonstrate any knowledge of Greek (language and chant) - although important – but to communicate on topics of some interest. I prefer to focus on the validity of what is said, not to the degree of knowledge of Greek or Latin. In my view it is important to realize that considerable (not mention passionate) communication and exchange do exist even in the natural case of the coexistence of orthographical errors and/or any other case of “misspellings” and additionally, that any didactic styled expression does not have any effect on the validity of the argument. So, take the two following minor, and not exhaustive, corrections as a real interest for the appearance of LML: In the lemma melos the Greek is appeared as μήλος (=something like… a male apple or the Aegean island in modern Greek.), the correct is μέλος. The same as in the lemma diatessaron (here I checked also the online pdf of the book version), διὰ τησσάρων. The correct is διὰ τεσσάρων. Such phenomena remind me also the frequent transliterations we nowadays see of medieval or modern Greek musical terms according to the pronunciation of an ancient Athenian of the 5th c. BC!

    γ) At the link “The Project” in the section “The Gregorian Chant” is written:

    Gregorian chant stands at the beginning of OUR European music culture. [emphasis mine, could this our be referred to the Romanians or Russians together also with the North/South Americans, Australians etc.?]

    δ) I hope as I wrote somewhere else at M.M. that the internet version of LML will be at constant updating. Working frequently with this magnificent tool (of OURS), I noticed that improvements could be done since the explanations and the selection –even in an intentional unconscious manner- of what “we” “see” (and “lemmatize”) depend on the way “we” have pre-theorized* (not only e.g. what was a terminus technicus and what wasn’t) about the material we consider. ** For example, there are some more considerations to be said about the long lemma musica. I am not talking only about the word musica as a musical instrument, that I wrote somewhere else here in M.M. …




    * At the link “Composing a Dictionary” section “Defining the Temporal Limits” in an almost exclusive manner (or better of an imagined language based cultural geography) about the thinking and the influences in the “Middle Ages” it is written:

    Yet since music theory did not spring from nothing, but rather incorporated the inheritance of ancient Latin theory, works that fundamentally shaped the thinking of the Middle Ages were included as background.

    ** See to the section “Choice of Lemmata” at the same link “Composing…” where also is written:

    Secondly, lemmata are included that have played a prominent role in musical literature, and thus play a predominant role through their usage in broad tradition of medieval Latin literature. The boundaries of technical connotation cannot be rigidly defined, and thus the choice of lemmata will remain open to criticism.

  • At least it is complete in the sense of the alphabetic entries.

    For the rest I already wrote my opinion about it, like the bibliography which is not up-to-date.

    I hope that the digital form allows to continue this great work and then it really becomes like Grimm's dictionary (this plattform was originally designed for it) which will be never ever complete. The same is true for the glossaries made by Gerd Rohlfs for Calabrian dialect and Italo-Greek language. They do still work on it.

  • I wrote, “more complete.”

  • Meanwhile I forgot about this former announcement and made a second one last October...

    Lexicon musicum Latinum medii aevi (LmL) dans le Wörterbuchnetz est complet !
    Screenshot of echemata listed in LmL Since some years the LmL has used the database technology once developed for Grimm's historical dictionary of Ge…
  • thank you Pavlos !!!!

  • Today I saw that LML acquired a new, more complete, online version at the same address.

  • C'est un projet fantastique, et sa réalisation à l'internet utilise la même structure du dictionnaire historique des frères Grimm (pour la langue allemande):

    Je suis très inspiré de l'article "absonia". Je connaît les traités Scholica et Musica enchiriadis comme première testimoîne latine du système tetraphonique (usé dans le chant byzantin), mais aussi de la pratique de transposition (μεταβολή κατὰ τόνον). C'était grace à Luca Ricossa qui m'a indiqué cette source au groupe dédié au chant vieux-romain (discussion de l'absonia).

  • J'attends avec impatience le prochain fascicule!

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